tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post3884890132466852041..comments2023-12-08T04:43:40.135-06:00Comments on The Fire and the Rose: Historical criticism today: a word to evangelicalsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-73750043555319667162008-09-24T10:07:00.000-05:002008-09-24T10:07:00.000-05:00But what is the alternative to HBC? Do we go back...But what is the alternative to HBC? Do we go back to a pre-critical point and ignore history? HBC is the tool by which we try to build a bridge from today back to an earlier age. The results of earlier work may come under scrutiny, but the basic premise that we must consider the historical context and use historical tools must not be rejected. Unless, of course, we wish to approach it as purely literature with no historical context.Robert Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-58439986722610967422008-09-22T07:59:00.000-05:002008-09-22T07:59:00.000-05:00I think ROFlyer is on to it when he says, "I would...I think ROFlyer is on to it when he says, "I would say that HBC has indeed fallen out of favor among theologians, not because conservative evangelicals condemn it, but because more and more theologians find it theologically bankrupt." The question gains clarity here on the issue of who (variously) it has fallen out of favor with and then asking why it has done so for that particular group.<BR/><BR/>That said, Dave, I too got the "this is how I was taught" line at PTS. So, I agree that there is some falling out of favor in various constituencies. Various overlapping reasons are surely present. I do agree whole-heartedly that any current ebbs in HBC's "popularity" (?!) are not grounds for some 19th century throwback "I told you so."<BR/><BR/>-HooverHooverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09324911289969690470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-64206648080218486482008-09-11T08:59:00.000-05:002008-09-11T08:59:00.000-05:00Reading this, I was reminded of something I read f...Reading this, I was reminded of something I read from Yoder a while back: "If we may be free by self-critical scholarly objectivity no longer to have to assume that the authority of the Bible resides in its saying things that we agree with, we may be free as well to hear more clearly what it really says instead of giving it credit for saying what we already think."<BR/><BR/>This would be impossible, just as you suggest, without retaining some semblance of HBC. I've never understood the false dichotomy Leithart et al. proposes. But, then, I've never been comfortable with notions of extreme hermeneutical certitude either.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05006685610827238652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-4009887212304429912008-09-09T03:47:00.000-05:002008-09-09T03:47:00.000-05:00Thanks, David, for this timely admonishment. On t...Thanks, David, for this timely admonishment. <BR/><BR/>On the subject, Gerhard Ebeling's seminal essay "The Significance of the Critical Historical Method for Church and Theology in Protestantism" (an article first published in 1950, and the lead essay in <I>Word and Faith</I> [SCM, 1963]) is very much still worth a read. In it, Ebeling insists that "In the Reformers' view, both revelation and faith are discovered in their genuine historicalness, and that quite definitely means that faith is exposed to all the vulnerability and ambiguity of the historical." He goes on to suggest that "the assent to lack of guarantees is merely the reverse side of the certainty of salvation <I>sola fide</I>" - and then makes the stinging claim that "thus are we justified in asking whether a theology which evades the claims of the critical historical method has still any idea at all of the genuine meaning of the Reformers' doctrine of justification, even if the formulae of the sixteenth century are repeated with the utmost correctness."<BR/><BR/>Cf. Ernst Käsemann in his own seminal article "New Testament Questions of Today" (first published in 1957, and kicking off his collection of essays with the same title [SCM, 1969]): "The tension between Gospel and Scripture is the indispensible presupposition of all theological interpretation and the inner meaning of those problems of Scripture of which historical criticism takes account. Whatever motive may have caused the taking over of historical criticism into the exegetical sphere, any retreat from this criticism in the present must necessarily make the problems of Scripture more obscure, reduce the diverse utterances of Scripture to a single level, remove the tension of Gospel and Scripture and endanger the proper historical character of revelation. Radical historical criticism is the logical consequence ... in the methodological field of that theological criticism which is coinstitutive for Scriptural interpretation."<BR/><BR/>Strong tobacco for evangelical pipes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-13971794685693141232008-09-07T13:29:00.000-05:002008-09-07T13:29:00.000-05:00I think that it is certain elements within HBC tha...I think that it is certain elements within HBC that have fallen out of favour -- most notably source and redaction criticisms. A good many of the other elements of HBC are still alive and well -- albeit much more fully developed -- in socio-rhetorical, literary, empire-critical, and gender-critical readings of Scripture. HBC really is at the core of <I>any</I> reading of Scripture that wishes to grapple seriously with Scripture as a collection of (you got it) historical texts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-59642212187015755782008-09-06T15:02:00.000-05:002008-09-06T15:02:00.000-05:00David, although HBC is criticized from both the le...David, although HBC is criticized from both the left and the right,I doubt that it is really dying off. Biblical scholars are hard at work doing mainstream historical criticism. Sure, you have your post-colonialists, feminists, etc, but I would say by and large the discipline is still strongly in the tradition of HBC.<BR/><BR/>I would say that HBC has indeed fallen out of favor among theologians, not because conservative evangelicals condemn it, but because more and more theologians find it theologically bankrupt. I'm thinking of the so-called "post-liberals" (and surely they owe something to Barth) here. <BR/><BR/>My own opinions on this are quite strange because of my background. On the one hand, radical historical criticism pulled me out of a conservative evangelical view of scripture. I became a devoted follower of good critical biblical scholars and thought that there was nothing worse than a conservative evangelical biblical scholar. Hell, I despised B.S. Childs for stepping outside the bounds of HBC orthodoxy. In the end, however, I realized that historical criticism wasn't inherently helpful to theology. That is, it is certainly not a replacement or substitute to theology, as some advocates of HBC would suggest. <BR/><BR/>I am, however, extremely sympathetic to your post here. Although I have great difficulty finding ways to apply my HBC background to my systematics background, I am convinced that it can and must be done. <BR/><BR/>Sorry for the long comment and convoluted comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-63235982268013347202008-09-06T13:39:00.000-05:002008-09-06T13:39:00.000-05:00Don't you think the low status of HBC is due to th...Don't you think the low status of HBC is due to the fact that those who remain in the discipline of biblical studies are, by percentage, increasingly theologically driven folks. In other words, academia which only honors HBC, finds little use for Biblical studies since Christianity (and Judaism) have diminished in cultural significance. To them biblical studies is such a small niche of ancient historical studies their is less motive to specialize in it. Therefore those who remain are increasingly theologically committed and skewing the practice away from HBC, which tends to work against their commitments. A bad trend I'd say, a sign of the death throes of Biblical Studies as an academic discipline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com