tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post4485925226513665240..comments2023-12-08T04:43:40.135-06:00Comments on The Fire and the Rose: Beyond Binaries: A Response to Mark Galli, Part 3Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-68247066067861172772011-04-09T06:40:34.987-05:002011-04-09T06:40:34.987-05:00Thanks Simeon. I hadn't seen that article, but...Thanks Simeon. I hadn't seen that article, but now I'm sure I'll have to say something about it. It's definitely problematic. Galli should know better than to enter these deep theological waters without doing the necessary work beforehand. It doesn't seem like he's read even the most basic texts on the topic.David W. Congdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03009330707703611224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-76472400249027183812011-04-09T00:37:26.652-05:002011-04-09T00:37:26.652-05:00Thank you for this thorough review of Galli's ...Thank you for this thorough review of Galli's article. I am not a student of theology but my sister-in-law is a PhD student at Fuller and had previously sent me the Joel Green book on the atonement (Joel is on of her professors at Fuller) and I reviewed it as part of an article on the atonement on my blog at <a href="http://metapundit.net/writing/atonement_theology" rel="nofollow">metapundit.net/writing/atonement_theology</a>.<br /><br />I actually didn't think the Rob Bell article was that bad but I wonder if you saw the follow up about Christus Victor (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/aprilweb-only/christusvicarious.html?start=1). This dealt specifically with arguments about the atonement and Galli seems to be digging himself deeper into the hole... I especially thought the attempted linkage between Christus Victor and a culture of victimhood was weak and I'm hoping you'll comment on this article as well...metapundit.nethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11729350517271714995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-21983269707508157102011-03-16T17:38:12.202-05:002011-03-16T17:38:12.202-05:00I really appreciate your doing this David. Followi...I really appreciate your doing this David. Following with keen interest and much agreement. <br /><br />One relatively minor thing: I think you are right to point out that Bell is a pastor writing a pastoral piece and so readers and critics should not look at it to give a totally systematic overhaul of the topic. But I still want to say that pastors, especially ones who are being published and read so widely, should be able to speak coherently about what they are presenting. In other words, I think we make allowances for this according to its pop-theology genre, but I also think evangelicals could start asking more (rather than less) of their pastors and their pop theology. (I'm not saying that in regard to Bell's book because I haven't read it. I'm just making the general point, which I think goes double to those over-reacting to Bell). <br /><br />Anyway, thanks again for this series.Jon Couttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728055140831842717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-10230785642843942802011-03-16T17:09:49.442-05:002011-03-16T17:09:49.442-05:00David,
I've really appreciated this series. M...David,<br /><br />I've really appreciated this series. My friend Alex, who blogs at Is There a Meaning in this Blog?, has a phrase that fits the logic of evangelicalism you describe: "Mental Works." In other words, we're justified by the mental work of right belief. It's ludicrous, but you can find examples immediately by searching for #robbell on Twitter.<br /><br />I look forward to the rest of your series!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-7640764626255334152011-03-16T14:52:14.446-05:002011-03-16T14:52:14.446-05:00David,
I appreciate your post today, as I did the...David,<br /><br />I appreciate your post today, as I did the previous one. Here's my larger concern. Given our evangelical heritage and its view of the Bible, the conversation is painfully constrained by our inability to forthrightly say something like the following.<br /><br />"The Bible is a faithful witness to God's revelation in Christ. Yet, this witness contains mythic imagery, especially in its language about the beginning and end of time, from the raqia' ("dome") in Genesis 1, to the multi-headed Leviathan in Psalm 74, to Gehenna in the Gospels. Thus, we should catiously reassess our appropriation of this imagery. Just as many have realized that holding to a young earth is irresponsible, it may also be necesssary to question the affirmation of an eternal, oven-like dungeon beneath the earth."<br /><br />Or something to this effect. In other words, we need to move past reinterpretations of "eternal" in Matthew 25, which I read at the blog Experimental Theology, following the link you gave in part 2. (I am sympathetic to that writer's larger goals.) I find such interpretations unpersuasive and unattractive to many readers. They seem similar to reinterpretations of "day" in Genesis 1. Instead, we need to find ways to say, "Yes, as an ancient 1st century Jew, Jesus probably believed in some type of everlasting punishment. Jesus also believed this world would transition to the eternal kingdom within a few decades of his life (Mark 13:30-31). But we must reintepret--'demythologize'!--that language to discern how it witnesses to reconciliation in Christ."<br /><br />(On Jesus' view of hell from a literary-historical perspective, see Dale Allison's "The Problem of Gehenna," in his _Resurrecting Jesus_.)<br /><br />I suspect you agree with much of this and you may be heading to some aspect of this in your next post. It seems we must find ways to argue this "demythologization" case more persuasively in order to present a faithful alternative to the prevailing paradigms. Given the presuppositions of our evangelical friends, this is a very difficult task, to be sure. Still, we must insist that this is a faithful a response to God's revelation in Christ and God's inspired witness in Scripture.<br /><br />JoeJoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480967465373983096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11393723.post-32029038436778408212011-03-16T12:06:57.191-05:002011-03-16T12:06:57.191-05:00Hi D.W.,
Thanks for these. They are a really hel...Hi D.W., <br />Thanks for these. They are a really helpful overview and I am suggesting your posts to folk asking me about the issue.Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13301222412563398458noreply@blogger.com